Venetian Glass? Old or New?

[darcele]

Attached image of two items my mother had. Does anyone know anything about them? The covered comport is 13" tall, 8 1/2" wide, the chalice is 8" tall, 6" wide. Both handblown and in real nice condition. Comport had a fragment of a red label on base, but no words remained.

Thanks!

[TxSilver]

I am not familiar with these two specific pieces. The beads were popular in the 1950-60's. Two Murano companies I know that used such decorations are Salviati and AVeM. Some Bohemian companies. e.g. Moser, also liked the look, but your mother's glass doesn't look Bohemian. Do you know when your mother got them?

If my time interval for the popularity of the decoration is incorrect, please feel free to correct. Many of the pieces that I see do not have a date tag on them.

Anita

[fossilfly]

Hi. They are gorgeous! It definitely looks to be classic Murano tableware. I took a look in "Glass for the Table" XIX Century Murano Glass Tableware by Arsenale Editice for a show hosted by Gallery Rosella Junick in 1999. Listed in the catalog is a very similar piece on pp.19 and pp.32 by Fratelli Toso.

[darcele]

Thanks for input! I was told that they were given as a gift in the late 1950s ;). The base of both pieces show moderate to light bottom wear. My first impression was late 19th century because of the styling, but the bottom-wear does not point to over 100 years of use. I know they have been in a china cabinet for at least the last 50+ years. So I wonder if they from the late 19th century or from the mid 20th century. I've learned this style was revived in the mid-century. Thanks for the Toso lead, I'll look in that direction. Salviati has also been suggested.

[TxSilver]

Late 19th Century would explain the look of the glass. Light wear may mean that they have been treated gently. I've had bowls that are 50-60 years old and have little or no wear on the bottom. If they were kept in a box, on a doily, or inside a display case, they may still be in near-mint condition.

The 19th Century Fratelli Toso book sounds like a very good investment. I'll have to check Amazon to see if they have copies. I need to find a earky Salviati book as well. After I thought about it, the beaded Salviati pieces may have been from the earlier part of last century.

I hope you're able to find the maker for the pieces. I agree that F. Toso and Salviati are good starting places to look. Both houses still have email addresses that you can write to ask. I don't know the addresses, but maybe someone here does.

Anita

[darcele]

I've e-mailed both houses, no reply yet. Interesting replies from 2 others: Barclay Galleries: "I will say, though, that my first thought is that they are probably quite recent pieces of glass, as I have never seen any Salviati pieces like this, and of not of the best quality or workmanship." Hmmnn - I didn't really like that answer.

The other response came from Molta Bella Glass; "Yes, I would say they are Salviati." That was all the message said, no mention of dates.

Will continue my search. The big question is are they antique or mid-century? Perhaps the glass houses will tell. If I find out, I'll let you all know.

Thanks so much for your help - will check back for further postings if you have any new info, please post. Also, will try to help out on other questions. I know a bit about mid-century American glass. The American makers were greatly influenced by the Murano and Swedish styles and often American made glass is thought to be Italian. :)

[TxSilver]

I have a feeling that the comment about the quality of workmanship is probably a reference to the complexity of the pieces. Salviati is known for putting a good bit of flourish in their earlier, more famous works.

The reasons I am drawn to Fratelli Toso, Salviati, Moser, and American brilliant cut glass is that I love complexity in glass. The busier the design, the more I like it usually. However, complex glass tends to be expensive, so there are many examples of all the houses that are less complex. People would not be able to afford to buy Salviati if all the pieces had the flourishes, dragons, or snakes that the house is famous for in its early years. Even Salviati has abandoned the flourish now. Modern works marketed in the US are fairly simple, compared to their early work.

Houses borrowed ideas from each other -- understandable since they had to cater to the market to survive. I imagine they made the highly ornate pieces for the wealthy, but also produced similar but less ornate pieces for the majority of people.

I hope you hear from Toso and Salviati soon.

Anita

[Glassyeyes]

HI your vases are very nice quality and have some good value. The type of technique is called soffiati and was used by a number of companies in the 20's, including Venini, MVM Capellin and Mazzega. Yours have some details similar to pieces by a company called S.A.I.A.R. Ferro Toso in the 20's. There are lots of pieces but the records are not good for absolute identification.

Soffiati glass represents a major breakthrough in Murano glass. Before the 20's Salviati and a few others were making very elaborate glass with not much diversity of style. Not many new types of glass or techniques - just more dragons and seahorse wineglasses etc. People like Zecchin, Martinuzzi and Venini shook up the whole glass business and dragged Murano into the 20th century (art deco). Soffiati glass took classic forms in thin glass and just made simple embellishments to emphasize the basic form and glassiness of a piece, rather than try to find a new sea creature to put on a piece of tableware.


Salviati is nice enough (I have a couple of pieces) but it gets boring fast.

Nice pieces - don't let anyone say they are not good ones.
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[darcele]

That's great info - I really appreciate it. Love this site. After days & days of searching (and no response from the glass houses), the only good info I've received is from this site. :) :) :)

[TxSilver]

There is a vase on eBay that is similar to your pieces that is accredited to Fratelli Toso. The link is:
http://cgi.ebay.com/MUSEUM-PIECE-antique-FRATELLI-TOSO-TULIP-VASE-1800s_W0QQitemZ200020727491QQihZ010QQcategoryZ994Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
If it is the same ilk, it looks like you may have a couple of nice things :D

Anita

[darcele]

I've seen it. I'm tempted to auction them off for mom. I've seen this style (with the light ornamentation) described as from the 1960s at http://www.great-glass.co.uk. Went back to the site today and the photo with the 1960s identification that I saw is mysteriously missing.

So I'm still hesitant to claim they are "museum quality" or from the 1800s like the one on Ebay. The glass houses did not respond. But I do think they are Fratelli Toso now. I'll let you all know if and when they go to auction so we can all see how they value!

Happy Glass Collecting!:)

[glassman]

There is a vase on eBay that is similar to your pieces that is accredited to Fratelli Toso. The link is:
http://cgi.ebay.com/MUSEUM-PIECE-antique-FRATELLI-TOSO-TULIP-VASE-1800s_W0QQitemZ200020727491QQihZ010QQcategoryZ994Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
If it is the same ilk, it looks like you may have a couple of nice things :D

Anita

That is a nice find! I didn't expect anything similar to show up on ebay!

[darcele]

We decided to Ebay the Venetian glass items. I think the values are set low, but hopefully the bidders will bid them up. Half hour after I listed, the covered jar got a bid. However, the bidder does not have any history with Ebay so I can't say if it's a good sign yet. Should be interesting!

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgoodglassauctions

:rolleyes:

[drabkin]

I would like to hear how the auction went! Good luck!

[darcele]

We listed both items as Venetian. The chalice sold for about 150. and the covered jar sold for 685.00. The chalice was Venetian glass, but the jar was a 1920s Stueben! We were shocked.

As the bidding went on, I noticed 2 of the bidders were Steuben fans (from their past bidding history). So I got out my "American Art Glass" book and actually found a Steuben collection that matched the decor, colors and included a decanter with the exact finial as the jar. I couldn't believe that I had the identification all along sitting on my bookshelf!

Glassyeyes was right about the era and the style. But who would have guessed Steuben? Frederick Carder made it, unsigned. Wow. American makers often copied Italian styles, and we can include Steuben now as one of them.

The buyer was a lady from Australia. She paid and I'll ship it off on Monday. Sad to see it go, but what a great glass experience!

[Glassyeyes]

That is one way to solve a mystery. It was under my nose as well. I found a nice big colour picture of a number of the pieces in that series in a book called "Frederick Carder:Portrait of a Glassmaker" (Corning Museum). He was the main Stueben designer. For the record, he also did a few rare pieces of millefiori and some pieces that look like Martinuzzi's big tear drop vases. Carder seems to have had the good taste to copy the right people.
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[boybob]

they were both Steuben - and actually not influenced by venetian at all - Carder originally came from a company called Stevens and Williams in England that hosted many famous makers - the influence of this piece should actually be attributed to John Northwood - of Northwood fame (yes the carnival glass guy) who was reknown in his early years for the "applied work" that came out of that company - most of the more extradornairy cameo stuff came from the hands of Carder during his English stint...