Alabastro vs Opalino

[TxSilver]

This is probably going to sound like a dumb question, but I have trouble telling alabastro from opalino. Both look so similar to me. Is there a good way to tell one from the other when you have the pieces in hand? when you look at pictures of the pieces?

I guess I have albastro-opalino color blindness.

Anita

[drabkin]

I'm guessing, but I thought alabastro was a pure white or a white mottled surface while opalino had an opalescent shimmer or shine on the surface.

To further confuse the issue, where does lattimo glass fit in with these two? To my knowledge, lattimo is a bright white opaque glass.

[TxSilver]

Thanks for answering :-) I asked the question here and on the other main Murano board. Either the question too dumb or no one else really knew. I have a feeling it was probably just dumb.

Lattimo is Murano's version of milk glass. It is white (unless color is added) and opaque (unless thin). It just looks like white glass. Opalino glass is translucent and milky looking. Alabastro sometimes looks opaque, but at other times looks like opalino to me.

I did some research and found out a few bits of probably useless knowledge. (I have an encyclopedia set of this in my head.) Alabastro and opalino are thick and very hard to work with -- especially alabastro. They have to be heated slowly, requiring great patience. Alabastro is incompatible with most other glasses, so you won't find it mixed with many things or cased. It will crack. A gaffer has to surround alabastro with something like enamel before it can be cased -- sort of making it useless to case alabastro for large pieces, where the alabastro would be totally concealed.

And don't get me started on chalcedony glass.:eek:

Just thought I would pass on my new information,
Anita

[biddaeverything]

Anita,
from the pieces i've seen and the scads of pictures i've looked it seems to me that opalino is a little less opaque than alabastro glass and less matte. i would guess that if one can see light through the glass and/or it's shiny like other glass, it is more likely to be opalino than alabastro. also, as you mentioned with the casing issues, i believe alabastro is most often done in solid colors and sans applied adornments. i think a lot of people are confused by the two because i have seen nearly identical pieces classified differently by two or more (what i would consider to be) knowledgable sources. i doubt the two words are synonomous but they seem to be used interchangably (with alabastro fetching a tidier sum?). my guess is that opalino is more common (probably due to the difficulties associated with producing alabastro) and my rule of thumb (today) is, "when in doubt, it's opalino". not very helpful, i know, but i've been wracking my pea brain over this question for days now and had to say something, even if it's dorky :D

cheers,

bidda

Thanks for answering :-) I asked the question here and on the other main Murano board. Either the question too dumb or no one else really knew. I have a feeling it was probably just dumb.

Lattimo is Murano's version of milk glass. It is white (unless color is added) and opaque (unless thin). It just looks like white glass. Opalino glass is translucent and milky looking. Alabastro sometimes looks opaque, but at other times looks like opalino to me.

I did some research and found out a few bits of probably useless knowledge. (I have an encyclopedia set of this in my head.) Alabastro and opalino are thick and very hard to work with -- especially alabastro. They have to be heated slowly, requiring great patience. Alabastro is incompatible with most other glasses, so you won't find it mixed with many things or cased. It will crack. A gaffer has to surround alabastro with something like enamel before it can be cased -- sort of making it useless to case alabastro for large pieces, where the alabastro would be totally concealed.

And don't get me started on chalcedony glass.:eek:

Just thought I would pass on my new information,
Anita

[TxSilver]

I agree with you, Bidda. Some of the pieces that I have seen called alabastro look like they are intimately combined with other glasses -- something I would not predict after reading a little about compatibility problems. I would expect for other glasses to be applied in a careful fashion.

Some of Seguso's alabastro animals are confusing to me. They are the ones that have differences in opacity -- for example, blue shading to opaque white. They are apparently all alabastro, just different colors. Some of the ribbed alabastro vases also confuse me. The more translucent-appearing parts of the vases (or bowls) look so much like opalino in pictures. If I bought these pieces and had them in hand, I would probably be able to see. Or it may be that the pieces I have in mind have been misidentified, as you said.

Anita

[biddaeverything]

my opinion is that when a ribbed vessel appears to be alabastro at the high ridges and transparent or opalino at the valleys then it's an opalino piece. i think that colors can be combined within an all-alabastro piece but if there were any non-alabastro elements (inclusions, applications, etc), i might become suspicious. please correct me if i'm wrong.

bidda :)

I agree with you, Bidda. Some of the pieces that I have seen called alabastro look like they are intimately combined with other glasses -- something I would not predict after reading a little about compatibility problems. I would expect for other glasses to be applied in a careful fashion.

Some of Seguso's alabastro animals are confusing to me. They are the ones that have differences in opacity -- for example, blue shading to opaque white. They are apparently all alabastro, just different colors. Some of the ribbed alabastro vases also confuse me. The more translucent-appearing parts of the vases (or bowls) look so much like opalino in pictures. If I bought these pieces and had them in hand, I would probably be able to see. Or it may be that the pieces I have in mind have been misidentified, as you said.

Anita

[castaway]

I know I'm new here and this thread is old but there seems to be confusion about opalino and alabaster glass. Technicaly there is a difference, a light globe illuminated behind a piece of relatively thin opalescent glass will show a reddish cast around the lamp fillament, alabaster glass will show white. I have been working glass for 25 years and experience no problem combining opalino, alabastro, pastel and transparent glasses in the same piece. there is quite a bit of 'folk law' in the glass world and sifting out the true facts can at times be difficult.
hope I haven't trodden on any toes, Bernard

[TxSilver]

Hi, Bernard and welcome! It is good to have a glass person on the group. I wish I still had the pieces to see if the light would have worked. They were both thick pieces, however, so I don't know if I could have told. The people who wrote the bit about alabastro not being compatible with other glasses were really just referring to trying to case alabastro without it cracking. They were bead makers. Have you tried to case alabastro with good results?

While I have your ear, do you know much about calcedonia? I have an antique piece, maybe by Salviati, that has a very natural looking crack. Does calcedonio tend to crack or do you think there was an outside stress put on the glass? I have been trying to learn more about the glass, but haven't been able to find a good reference on it.

Anita

[biddaeverything]

that's really interesting information, Bernard. thanks for sharing. do you know of a way to tell with thicker pieces, or those cased in other colors. i imagine that other colors cased with opalescent/opalino glass would alter the hue of the filiment through it. for instance i have a light green bowl that i believe is opalino and when i held it before a bare bulb the filiment looked orange. thanks,

bidda

[boybob]

dunno - call me a fool - but doesnt the word alabastro itself lend it self to being white ??? i have always had the take that both alabastro and opalino are basically italian opaline glass - alabastro being white and opalino being the other colors it's found in ie: pink green blue ect ect ect... i would bet dollars to donuts that it certainly is not just guaged on thickness - that doesnt seem to stand to reason - one would always expect a basket for example to be thicker than a vase... i have a stunning basket i picked up in yellow with a white handle - a combo of both i would think - swirled - i believe it to be seguso - much like the animals he made... i will have to try to take a piccie...

[boybob]

here is a piccie of the basket... sowwy it's not a good one...

[TxSilver]

Beautiful basket. It does look like it could have been made by Archimede Seguso. The handle looks like alabastro. Can you tell what the yellow glass is?

Alabastro can be different colors apparently. Seguso has alabastro pieces in different shades of blue, pink, white, and other colors. What I've gathered so far is that it is a thick glass when melted and difficult to work with... and that it looks like alabaster.

Anita

[biddaeverything]

Beautiful basket. It does look like it could have been made by Archimede Seguso. The handle looks like alabastro. Can you tell what the yellow glass is?

Alabastro can be different colors apparently. Seguso has alabastro pieces in different shades of blue, pink, white, and other colors. What I've gathered so far is that it is a thick glass when melted and difficult to work with... and that it looks like alabaster.

Anita

i agree that this basket is probably A Seguso. i have a matching piece (either a budvase or perfume vessel minus the stopper) in the same colors and swirling rib body. i have seen this color combination (reminds me of lemon meringue pie :)) and type of glass attributed as such many times. there may be other definitions of alabaster glass to which these pieces do not conform, but i would be comfortable calling them "alabastro" as the term applies to Murano glass.

bidda

[springhead]

First of all I think it is bad form to be taking pictures of items at an antique co-op and posting them to find out if it's something good enough to buy... That's only my opinion because I am a snobby antique dealer... heh...

That being said... some further observations... opals are white with color inclusions... alabaster comes in many different colors depending on the impurities in the rock.

and now... I just got this alabastro lovebird figure. It is in my shop...

http://www.rubylane.com/shops/murano-glass/item/50

It won't be there long... heh...